Oral History Transcript

Oral History Transcript

Transcript

A transcript of Jefri Mesa's oral history. (Recorded on April 5, 2017).

Isabella Leόn-Chambers

April 5, 2017

Isabella Leόn-Chambers

Jefri Mesa and Isabella Leόn-Chambers

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Interviewer: Isabella Leόn-Chambers
Interviewee: Jefri Mesa
Date of Interview: April 5, 2017
Location of Interview: 253 Broadway, New York, New York, 10007
Transcriber: Isabella Leόn-Chambers

Abstract:
Jefri Mesa moved to the Melrose section of the South Bronx when he was four years old from the Tremont area. In this interview, Jefri reflects upon the experiences he had in Melrose, throughout his childhood, which make him nostalgic. Despite the fact that he moved out of Melrose during his college years, he continues to go back because his mother still lives there. Jefri also explains the work he did as an employee at WHEDco and the ways in which he believes community members can fight gentrification. He highlights that the South Bronx started to get gentrified around 2010. He also expresses his frustration with the lack of subway lines that run through the Bronx and the times he had been racially profiled by police. Jefri has mixed feelings about the Netflix show, The Get Down , because he believes that people probably think that the Bronx is still burning. Even though he thinks it is an entertaining show to watch, he sees how it can be problematic. He also describes his hopes for the future of the South Bronx and claims that he wants people to come there to enjoy its rich music and culture, however, he has his doubts.

IL: This is Isabella Leόn-Chambers and I am interviewing Jefri Mesa. J-E-F-R-I space M-E-S-A. It is April 5, 2017. This is for (Dis)placed Urban Histories at NYU Gallatin, Spring 2017.

IL: So, Jefri, could you tell me a little about where you come from?

JM: Um... I was born in the Bronx. I was actually born, I don't know if it is really considered the South Bronx, but I was born in Tremont. Tremont area. At the age of 4, I moved over to Melrose. I don't really remember much about moving but I remember that I was in pre-K. And my ethnic background.... I'm Dominican. So, you know, Hispanic. Um... and... what else?

IL: Um... So, what was it like growing up there as a child?

JM: Um... It was I don’t know... it was very different. I was there since i was four and then I started moving away... Really... I mean my mom still lives there. So, she still lives in the same area that we grew up in. Um... but I officially moved out I would say in college. So, I saw it change a lot. Um... I would say that it started out as very, very – I don’t know – I feel like it was very under construction. There was a lot of construction projects going on all around. And then even to this day it is still happening, but at the same time I felt like it was a very... especially my block, it was very... It felt like a community. Like most people knew each other. Um... We had a lot of street activities, street fairs going on. Umm... I think it was pretty fun. I think I got lucky where I grew up. It wasn't bad.

IL: Um. So... What role did your culture play in your background... like in your childhood? And in your community?

JM : Um... In my childhood, I would say that definitely the food that you eat. Does that count? Um... The neighborhood I would say is very mixed, which is nice. Um... There are a lot of African-Americans, a lot of Latino people from all different countries. Um... So... I wouldn't say that the Dominican culture dominated the area. Umm... but it definitely dominated my life because the music that I would hear, the food that I would eat. Umm... That was really prevalent during that time... of me living there.

IL: So, how would you describe the South Bronx?

JM: Umm... (Laughs). It's always changing. Oh my god. Umm, I feel like the South Bronx is... it's filled with history and I would say always under construction, like I said earlier. Um... because there's always some big change in coming. Especially like in these times. Gentrification happening. Um... You know. You see people in the South Bronx neighborhoods that you never saw before. A lot of businesses are starting to be displaced. Um... Housing is getting more expensive. What was the question again?

IL : Um... Oh, no. You're just describing how it has changed.

JM: Yeah, so I would say it is definitely getting more expensive. Um, it's becoming harder to move in there. Um... Lots of affordable housing projects. Um.. Those are really popular these days. I mean you can tell that they're affordable housing just by the way they look. Trust me, they all look the same. They all have these orange bricks. Uh, which is like cheaper bricks. I heard. That's why they all use them. Um... and honestly, I do think that it's becoming more safer at the same time. Um, not as much crime as I saw when I was younger. Um, yeah. I got lucky, I guess. Because I was there from so young and like even into my college years until I moved out of my parents' house, just like two years ago now. Um... It's... You can tell that it feels safer. Umm.. going to the parks feels safer.

IL: Were there ever like any areas that you didn’t go to? If so, why?

JM: Yeah, um, a little bit around like 138th, you would see a lot of housing projects there. And you would see... It’s near a precinct. And, um, usually the rule in the Bronx is that if it’s near a precinct, it might be somewhere that feels unsafe. And... it’s not always the case, I wanna say. But... Is this picking up well?

IL: Mhm...

JM: Yeah. Okay. It’s not always the case. But, um, the precinct is in a heavy crime area. But sometimes it is. And 138th street, you’d see that a lot. And I didn’t have a reason to hang out around there, but...

IL: Um... so... what would you say to people who have negative stereotypes about the Bronx?

JM: I would say that...

IL: Oh, wait, sorry, and in the past have people said those stereotypes to you?

JM: Yeah... Definitely. People. Oh my god. I have a lot to say about this. I’ll try to keep it short... (Laughs). Okay. I know one of my friends, she was born in Brooklyn, she lived in Virginia most of her life and then she came back to Brooklyn after college. I met her in college. And she lives there now. She’s always telling me, “Oh, move to Brooklyn, it’s much nicer.” And I’m like “mmm...” There’s a lot of parts of Brooklyn that are very similar to the Bronx. Um... and the Bronx, it’s not a bad area, I would just say it doesn’t have as many tourist attractions as there should be. Um, you know, if you go to Brooklyn, you have neighborhoods filled with bars, that’s something you don’t really see in the Bronx. There are some bars but I feel like they are very niche, like only a certain type of people go there. Or... I don’t know. They... Yeah. Only a certain type of people go there. Um... but I would say that it is not as scary as it seems. People have never been to the Bronx and judge it. They think, you know, that there is gangs everywhere, and that’s not true. There is crime but there is crime in every borough. Um... You know... I... There are a lot of parts of the Bronx that they may be surprised about, like places like Riverdale, like Pelham Parkway. Um... which are, you know, they look a little bit. I understand that some parts of the Bronx aren’t that clean. But there are parts of it that are really clean. Um, yeah, and I would say that there is a lot going on here like there’s great food. There’s definitely great... There’s some great clubs. Um... It’s rich in culture. I mean the history that this borough is, you know, amazing. In terms of like where hip-hop started. Um.. and things of that nature. But...

IL : Do you have any recommendations for like places where people should go to in the South Bronx?

JM: In the South Bronx? Um... Yeah... Hmm... I’m trying to think. I would say, I don’t know if this is the South Bronx persay, but I’m trying to think. Hold on. Um... There’s a place on Grand Concourse. Um, what’s the name? (Laughs). Why can’t I remember? Um, alright, so, I have one place. It’s not originally what I was originally thinking of. But there’s this restaurant. Um, yeah, it’s in the South Bronx, it’s along 150th. I don’t know the adjacent street. Like 3rd avenue? It’s this... Washington Heights has this place called “Mofongo House.” Have you heard of it? Um, yeah. There’s one like it I would say in the Bronx. And it has really, really good food. And I would definitely recommend it. Um.. Also, St. Mary’s Park. Um... That’s where, what’s his name? Bernie Sanders had a thing there. An event there, when he was running for office. And, um, you know it has a lot of history there. A lot of like hip-hop started actually in St. Mary’s Park. Um, and you can find it in like a lot of TV shows now. A lot of movies are being filmed there. Um, recently. Like The Get Down. A lot of it was filmed there. Um, and, it’s a beautiful park, it’s big. And it has this like recreation center. There’s like a swimming pool, a gym, it’s fun. During my teen years, I used to go there a lot. Especially in the summer. It’s nice. And you can swim year round. So, that’s fun. I think that’s one thing that a lot of people don’t take advantage of, cause, I remember going to it and it was always empty or it was always the same people. It’s a great resource. And there’s a lot of residential areas nearby. And I think the park is beautiful, it’s big. So, that’s nice.

IL: Um... So do you still visit places that you visited... um... as a child?

JM: My mom’s house? (Laughs). Yeah. Um... In the South Bronx? Yeah, well... Alright, one place that I always love walking through is like 161st. All the way down. And you go through Melrose. From Yankee Stadium all the way to like 3rd avenue. 3rd Avenue is the area that I lived in. Um, doing that walk... it’s long but it’s nice. Yeah, that area has definitely changed too over the years. They’ve opened a Starbucks. And I think Starbucks is a good sign that, you know, there’s change. Change happening. Um... and the courthouses are by there too. Um... and actually, not too long ago, I went to a theatre. I don’t know. Do you know the area well?

IL: Sort of. I’m familiar with it from this class.

JM: Yeah, okay, so there’s like the Concourse, I think it’s called Concourse Plaza. Yeah. There’s like a movie theater there. And that’s a place I used to go to a lot as a kid. Umm... My mom used to take me a lot because it was right there. And I actually went recently with a friend. And it was like, “oh, this theater really hasn’t changed.” But they have a lot of amenities there too. A lot of stores inside. It’s like a mall. It’s cool.

IL: Um... what do you like or dislike about the South Bronx today?

JM: Umm... Alright, one thing I don’t like is that... I don’t know if this counts but I have a huge issue with the fact that there’s no trains running. First of all, um, the lines in the Bronx are really limited. Um...we have the “2” and the “5” but there’s nothing in between the “2” and the “5” and then the “4” and the “D.” They are like on really opposite sides. There’s nothing in the middle, which is actually where Melrose is, which makes it really hard. There’s the, what’s it called? The MetroNorth that runs right through there but that’s not reliable at all. Um... and I’m surprised, you know, they have the “Q” line but it doesn’t go up to where we are and there’s no trains running from the Bronx to Queens, which makes it really difficult for anyone who has families in Queens or the Bronx. Traveling between the two boroughs is really hard, unless you take a car. But some of us don’t have cars. Yeah, I have huge beef with that.

IL: Why do you think there are so many limited train lines up there?

JM: Um... I think it’s that people honestly, like, if you look at the city. A comparison that I can make, that’s really good actually. A month ago we had a huge snowstorm. Who got cleaned first? Manhattan. Because it is a really popular area to go to. And then neighborhoods after that, each borough, get cleaned up really fast, whereas, in the Bronx, you know the streets stay icy for many days. It’s just that there’s not a lot of money and revenue, so they don’t care as much as Manhattan or other boroughs.

IL: Um... So how are you involved in your community? Or how were you involved?

JM: Well, I was... I just came... I used to be an employee at WHEDco, and, um, that was, I would say, my first real job after college. And I think that was a great opportunity, because we worked directly in the Bronx. Umm... and I really got to see and learn a lot about how different things that change our community work. Such as affordable housing, um, helping businesses who are just starting up. Um, and just like services that we provide to the community. I just think it was a great experience to be apart of that. And still I’m apart of this network right now, um, and, I mean... Kind of part of this network. I don’t want to say I am. It’s called South Bronx Rising Together. And it’s another initiative that helps people of the South Bronx. But it helps them more towards education, whereas WHEDco, helps them in a lot of different ways, like affordable housing, education, health services, family support programs, stuff like that. I’m still part of that but I haven’t been to a meeting in awhile. (You don’t need to say that). But, I don’t know. What I’m fascinated about is how the community is changing and who is moving in and how can we preserve, you know, those cultures that have grown up there. You know?

IL: So, how do you think people can preserve their culture?

JM: Well, you don’t need to make things more expensive. You know? What it really should be is that you should serve the people of your community first and try to make the streets safer. Try to make it easier for people that already live there to live there. Make it easier for them. Don’t make it harder. Because that’s the only way that people are going to be moved out, is if you make it harder for them to live. And, you know, the South Bronx especially, it should be a “for us, by us” environment, where the people who live there should have a huge hand in shaping how it is going to look in the future. And it’s possible that’s not going to happen because, you know, prices are going up and it’s going to make harder for people who originally lived in the Bronx to live there.

IL: Um, so what exactly did you do at WHEDco?

JM: So, I was a researcher. Um... research assistant was my official title. I did a lot of like different functions, I would say. Um... For example, I would evaluate our programing. I would measure the impact WHEDco was making to the community. So, for example, how exactly were our afterschool programs helping the community that we served. Doing a lot of data analysis, capturing data through surveys, interviews, evaluations, observations. Research. Actually, kind of like this. What you’re doing right now. I had my own little recorder and when I would interview people I would record it and transcribe it and then write it up.

IL: Um, so, do you do that right now at the Mayor’s office?

JM: Um.. No.. I think my job is completely different. What I like about the Mayor’s office is that now I get to work with a bunch of nonprofits. Umm... my job is completely different, though, I would say. I still work with data. But what I’m doing right now... My official title is risk analyst. So, I analyze the performance of nonprofits across the city. So, if a nonprofit is not doing well financially, we catch it and then put them on a corrective action plan to tell them, “You’re doing this wrong and this is how you should fix it.” And, um, this whole like legal thing. Stuff like this. A lot of people are not complying to like city regulations. And um... we just make sure they are. Yeah, it is very different but at the same time, I think it’s cool because I get to see all of these different nonprofits and you get like this understanding of how to run a good nonprofit and how people screw up. People screw up in a common way, and you learn, “okay, this is not what should be going on.” Um... Especially in the Bronx, I feel like there are a lot of nonprofits serving homeless people. A lot of them fail for a specific type of reason. The thing is, I can’t really talk about my job in this interview. I wouldn’t like to. Because, I don’t think it’s.... Like, my supervisors don’t know that I’m having this interview.

IL: Oh, okay.

JM: So, I can tell you what it is, but like anything specific... Oh.. my mom is calling me. Hold on. Hello? Umm.. Estoy en un interview ahora. Yo te llamo. En un interview de mi trabajo. Yo te llamo en treinta minutos, cuarenta minutos? Alright, bye. Sorry about that.

IL: Umm...

JM: It’s just that I wouldn’t want this to be like written down. (Laughs). Because they are going to be like, “Oh, what’s this for?”

IL: Um. So... What do you miss most about the South Bronx?
JM: Um... I miss being a kid there. Yeah. I miss like going outside. I feel like, I mean, of course I’m an adult now, so playing... Where I used to live, in the center of it, there was this like park. Um, and it had this jungle gym and we would always like play games and manhunt. I just miss my childhood. I felt like things were a lot easier. Also, it wasn’t ever bad where I lived. Um, of course, things would happen, but I felt like I was safe to go outside. Um... and it was just fun. I felt free. Um... I miss my neighborhood. Even though my mom still lives there, it is not the same.

IL: Have you seen her building change over the years? Like people going in and out?

JM: Yeah, definitely. Oh yeah. There’s a lot of people that are... What are they? Because we moved not that... Like five years ago now. But it was to the same block, so, not really moving at all. Um... and... in our old building, we had move out, and our neighbor, who we grew up with too, had to move out. That was really sad. Cause I really never saw her again. I did see her again. But, it wasn’t... I don’t know. I saw her like maybe once. We didn’t keep in touch. I think there’s like maybe one person from my childhood that’s still there. In the old building. So, yeah, it’s changed. Um... how it’s changed? It’s really just people. I mean, the rent has gone up, obviously, but I would say it is still the same demographically. Um... still families, still people of color. So... in that way, it hasn’t really changed too much.... But... I don’t know... Maybe you can ask more about that question.

IL: Um, so, when do you think your neighborhood started to get gentrified?

JM: Um, I would say around like 2010ish. Cause every time I would come back it was always something different... about the area. Like, some new affordable housing building. Um... it’s slow, but it’s happening. I don’t think it is as crazy as like how... let’s say, Williamsburg looks now. Um... but I think it is like slowly happening. Um... I know like around 138th. You know? That part of the South Bronx is definitely starting to become more expensive. And I know that just because I looked at apartments in that area before. Um, so that’s how I know. So, I would say that this decade it has been changing a lot.

IL: Um, so, the South Bronx was actually listed as one of the places to go in The New York Times.

JM: I saw that.

IL: How did that make you feel?

JM: (Laughs). Like really?! Well, what did the article say again? I can’t remember. IL: Um, it was talking about how it’s like up and coming.... Dah dah dah.

JM: I would say, yes, at the same time, I’m like defensive about it. I think it’s both good exposure and bad exposure at the same time. Because, it’s up and coming? But for who? For our own people? No. Probably not. It is exciting because you do, alright, we are in The New York Times , and we’re in there for something good. That’s not something that happens too, too often. Um... at the same time, it’s like... you know. Are people going to start to come here who aren’t from here? I think that gentrification is not always like a bad thing. The real negative affect about it is that we moved the original people out. We displace their homes and businesses too. Um, and you kind of lose culture. That’s the bad part. At the same time... it could be that, you know, you have more activities going on. Um... more nightlife... could be good. More concerts in this area. I know that there have been concerts in different parts of the Bronx but a lot of people don’t come here, whereas, there’s a lot of venues in Queens, Brooklyn, Manhattan, especially. Um... we don’t really have that. We have like one concert hall and it’s like... not that great. It’s rare that a good person comes there. Or if a good person comes there, it’s like someone who was from the Bronx originally. Like Fat Joe or like JLo. They’ve come like recently.

IL: Um... So... you went to high school in the Bronx?

JM: Yeah, but not in the South Bronx.

IL: Oh, okay. Where’d you go to high school?

JM: Um... What’s that area called? Mosholu. That’s my train station. That’s the street name. Mosholu Parkway. It’s very much like upper east side. Not like west. It’s almost near Yonkers and Riverdale. Like really up there. Like 200 something. Yeah. On the “4” line.

IL: Um, did a lot of community members go to that same high school as you?

JM: Um. No. I wouldn’t say so. No. I’m sure like. I can’t say I know one person who went to my high school that lived in my neighborhood. Maybe one person. I don’t know. I never met them. I’m sure they did but I never met them.

IL: Have you seen shopping change in this area over the years, and if so, how?

JM: Yeah... I feel like there’s more. That reminds me of a different area of the Bronx. Shopping, yeah. I feel like some stores are dying out. Like... What is it? Conway? Conway used to be big on 3rd avenue in the South Bronx. I don’t... I think it did shut down and they replaced it with something else. Um... at the same time that 3rd avenue area. I don’t know what it’s officially called, 149th... You can look this up. Like plug it in there. But... um... it’s becoming more... I don’t know. I think it’s becoming more attractive. But, it’s always been, at the same time. I don’t think much has changed but like different stores have definitely popped up. I don’t really shop in the area. So like, I can’t say... but, is it like 149th street hub? I think that’s what it’s called? Do you know? Yeah... Um... Yeah. Whatever.

IL: So do you think these shop owners should get in touch with community members? If they are like gentrifying the area to like form a coalition. How do you think –

JM: Wait. Who? Who’s gentrifying?

IL: Like shop owners... Yeah, the people gentrifying. Do you think they should be in contact with the community?

JM: Yeah... It’s hard because it could be a good thing and a bad thing, I guess. I’m not too sure how it works or how it would work. So... in my mind, if they are in contact with the community, they could somehow make an agreement on, “what is it that you want, how can we serve you?” Actually, at WHEDco we kind of did that sometimes. Um... We did like consumer report reviews. Where consumers would tell us what they want and we would give that information back to the businesses. Um...so... hopefully something like that could happen.

IL: Could you tell me more about your time at WHEDco? And like what projects you guys worked on?

JM: Alright. I’ll tell you one that was based in Melrose. So we’re building this new building in Melrose called Bronx Commons. Not “we” because I don’t work there anymore. But they are. They’re building this building. And for that I remember I had to survey a couple hundred people. Like 300. About what their community needs are. And in the frame of mind, where, whatever resources WHEDco has, how can we use those resources to help these people. Or how can we make changes to help these people. So, yeah, basically I surveyed a bunch of people. Took that information... and then... You know, because we are also looking for businesses to occupy the area. We give those reports to those people. And it really informs us of people that we want to move into that area. In terms of businesses. Okay, so, people want a lot of clothing stores because there isn’t a lot in that area. Then, we’ll contact people who are looking to move in with a clothing store. Or something like that. Or if they want a nightclub or someplace to eat. That type of thing.

IL: Um, so how would you describe the planning of the Melrose area? Or... if you could change anything about it. Is there anything that you dislike?

JM: Planning? Um... like?

IL : Like the urban planning. Like the ways...

JM: Well, I did mention the....

IL: Like the ways streets are set up... Or even buildings.

JM: Well, I did say the subway. If there was a subway, an MTA subway, that ran through the middle of it... I think... maybe like 161st street could be split into like two streets because it does get pretty... A lot of traffic there sometimes. So, I would say that. I think it’s fine. It can be congested. So... Make the streets wider. I don’t know. Or split the streets. I’m not sure how that works, to be honest. I’m not the best at urban planning. I’m interested in it but... I don’t know too much about it.

IL: Um... So what are your fondest memories of growing up in the South Bronx?

JM: I think I kind of touched on that earlier, which was just being able to go outside and play. Playing manhunt, hide-and-seek, whatever. That was really fun.

IL: Where did you play?

JM: In the park that was like inside our block. Our block would be like a square. So the square would be buildings and in the middle would be a park, which was pretty cool. I think that’s a beautiful place. It’s like a hidden gem in itself. Whoever designed that area was smart because you have a park in the middle and you don’t have to cross the street or anything. Um... And some houses are facing the park. So, like, they would have backyards, in a sense, because it was open to the public. But it was nice and they have gates. If they ever want to close it at night, it’s a possibility.

IL: Um, so, how does your mom like living in the South Bronx?

JM: I think she likes it but.... Honestly, she does complain a lot about like....”Oh, there’s people smoking.” Or like the police are here. She likes it because it’s affordable to her. She likes it because our family is nearby too.

IL: Are they in the South Bronx?

JM: Yeah... Um, I would say like the middle of the Bronx but not far. They are like a busride away. So it’s not far, far. And like the metrics for the South Bronx, what covers it always, confuses me. Because people have different terms of what the South Bronx is. Like some people think the South Bronx is only below like 149th street, some people don’t think 161st street is the South Bronx, but it is. Um... Yeah.

IL: Um... So...

JM: We still have half an hour?

IL: Yeah. Um... What was I going to say.? Do you ever see yourself moving back?

JM: Um... Not right now because where I work is kind of far. The commute is kind of long. So I definitely want to move somewhere closer. But maybe when I get older. I don’t know. If I ever work in the Bronx, then yeah. That’s not like out of the question. And even like Melrose. Honestly, like, I would like to be closer to the trains so Yankee Stadium would be ideal. But that, you know, would be nice. Do you mind if I pause to get a bathroom break?

IL: Oh. Yeah.

JM: Yeah.

IL: So, earlier you talked about The Get Down and how it’s been filmed in the Bronx. Um... So I was wondering if you could talk more about that.

JM: Yeah, so, The Get Down was definitely very controversial. I liked it because for me it was fun. Also, it was filmed in the Bronx, and I think it was like “oh my god, I know this area.” Like St. Mary’s Park was a big thing in the first episode. And a bunch of different neighborhoods. And I remember one of my good friends saying, he also lives in the Bronx, towards Yankee Stadium. And that’s where they had one of the sets. And he said “oh yeah, I think they are filming something there.” It’s exciting and actually, that’s not the only thing. I remember something else they filmed there. I’ll talk about that a little bit later. Um... So... The Get Down it was about, really, the birth of hip-hop, how it started dominating clubs, coming out of the 70s. Where, before, it used to be disco, which is really interesting. And it also has to do with politics and more affordable housing coming to the Bronx.... Um... how the Bronx was always burning. You’ll probably hear that expression that, “the Bronx is burning,” because people would light buildings on fire. Um... I would say that my one problem with it was that it felt too exaggerated. Sometimes. I dunno if this actually happened, but they would have meetings. I mean, I can see it happening because while at WHEDco, we kind of did it once. They were in front of this construction site, where behind it, was like a wasteland and they were having like a – I don’t know – someone was running for President of the Bronx or something. I can’t remember now. Um... but, they were having it and the backdrop was this wasteland. And it was all these buildings that had been burnt down. And I think that’s a little overdramatic. But it’s a show and I accept that it’s a show. Um... One thing that I find interesting is all the graffiti because I think that used to be a huge problem in the 80s. And now that kind of trend has died down, don’t you think? You never hear about taggers. No? (Laughs). But, I find it interesting. Um... What else can I say about... Um... What I liked about it was definitely the music. They showed how these underground clubs were popular and everybody seemed like they were having a good time. So it seemed like, okay, the Bronx used to be fun. And at the same time, you are starting to hear about these underground parties again but they are with like celebrities. And it’s like a little bit too much. And they are trying to recreate how it was. It’s not the same. Um... So... it was good in some ways. It could have been better if it wasn’t as exaggerated, but that particular director, he kind of likes to... That’s what he likes to do. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen that 1990s Romeo and Juliet with that... What’s his name?

IL: Leonardo DiCaprio?

JM: Yeah. Him. It’s the same acting. It’s literally the same. I didn’t even know that he directed both movies but I was like, okay, this reminds of Romeo and Juliet . The same like, direction. It was weird. It could have been the same movie. Um... and it also had some like LGBT representation. Which I think is something in the Bronx that’s kind of like under the rug, but it’s definitely like a huge part of it. So...

IL: Could you tell me more about that?

JM: Yeah. Um... Honestly. I don’t know too much. But... um... it seems like there used to be a huge underground... Well, the club scene. I guess. There was a lot of gay people there. In the Bronx. Um... and... the people that made hip-hop popular was a lot of gay people. And I think they go uncredited but it’s true. Gay people have a history of going uncredited. I think that in the Bronx in this day in age, there’s not a huge gay scene at all. Um... I don’t even think there’s one gay bar, which is kind of sad. Um... But they do have small nonprofits that help gay people. Especially, you know, people who deal with HIV/AIDS. Which, you know, most of the people affected are gay people. Which is really, um, important in our community.

IL: Um... So how do you think media’s representation of the Bronx has affected people’s view of it?

JM: I think they are starting to warm up to it. At the same time, sometimes, it can be, the representation is not that great. In The Get Down , people probably think the Bronx is still like that. (Laughs). I wouldn’t be surprised. Like, “oh, are buildings still burning?” Stuff like that, which is not true. It can be good or bad. At the same time, they might be more interested in the culture. I know people visit, like, the Bronx Museum of Art, which is technically in the South Bronx too. Um... Yeah. And, you know, hopefully, you know, I hope people aren’t that judgemental and it makes them curious. I hope it makes them want to find out more. Definitely. Um. I remember I was thinking about this other show, called, Gotham , you’ve probably heard of it. The Batman show when he was a kid. On Fox. And... um... that was filmed in the South Bronx too. (Office lights turn off). Oh snap. Um... It’s fine. Yeah, that was filmed in the South Bronx. I hope I can be here because I’ve never been here that late. So... I think the light is automatic. That’s what it is. There’s no one in this area. Um... Hopefully. Um... So, yeah. That was also filmed. That’s like a cop show, kind of. I think that’s also fun. That was cool. That’s all I have to say on that.

IL: Um, speaking of cops, I know you talked earlier about how there was one area with a precinct, and how a lot of people said to avoid it. Why do you think that is?

JM: I think that it was just that there was a lot of crime happening there. Um, actually, I remember one time, my brother and I were driving through there and he got stopped. And it was for no reason at all. Just his car. And probably what he looked like. And it was right next to the precinct. And they were like, “oh, what’s going on?” And we were like nothing... It was weird. Very strange. I think it might have had like a bad history with gangs in that area. Um... I’m not too sure about like the facts. But, it is what it is.

IL: Um... Do you see... Well, in high school did you see a lot of cops usually like on the subways, at the stations or outside?

JM: Yeah... There’s always cops in the Bronx. Yeah. I see them more now, I feel, actually. Well, we’ve had this problem. Well, I don’t know if it’s a huge problem. But there’s people who like to sell metrocards at the subway, you know, they sell swipes. I don’t know how they’re getting the metrocards, but they’re definitely turning out profit. Um... and that’s illegal. And... so... there’s more cops there. Also, like, sometimes depending on the subway you go to... I don’t know. They might be unsafe. It gets dark at night. I do see a lot of cops. I don’t think that’s really changed.

IL: Have you had other experiences with the police? Besides that time with your brother? JM: Yeah, that’s not incriminating? (Laughs).

IL: (Laughs).

JM: Yeah, I’ve never had an incriminating experience. I remember once when I was like 15. Um... I was actually... We were... driving. Not driving. Riding our bikes on the sidewalks. Which you’re not supposed to do, but I see people do it all the time. Especially here. But we got stopped. We got frisked. They were like, “oh, you have drugs?” And we were like, “no, we’re just kids, we’re just teenagers.” We got a huge fine because of that. It was like $100. (Laughs). Yeah. It was my brother and I and my cousin. I wasn’t even driving my bike, my brother and my cousin were. They came to pick me up, so that I could come over to my cousin’s house because I was sleeping. I was taking a day nap. I was like 14. Um, and they came to pick me up. So, they were riding and I was walking next to them. And then the copped stopped and they gave us a ticket. It was stupid. They could have just told us, we really didn’t know, we were underage. I think because my brother was 17, it was okay to give a ticket. It was stupid. It was stupid. Like, come on. It’s a harmless thing to ride your bike on a sidewalk, unless there’s people there, then I understand, but there was like no one. That wasn’t fun.

IL: How do you think people in the South Bronx feel about the police?

JM: Um... I don’t think they like them. Um, but, my personal view of it is that they do keep us safe. It’s just... and I think it’s gotten better over the years. At least, in my experience, um, not everywhere else I would say, but frisking has stopped. I’m sure people still get frisked sometimes but it’s not really allowed now. Um... I don’t know. Anything else? I’m worried about the time.

IL: Oh, okay, well we can wrap up soon if you want.

JM: Yeah.

IL: Okay. Um... So what do see as like the –

JM: Where are we in time?

IL: Um... like 45 minutes.

JM: Alright, is that good?

IL: Yeah. What do you see as like the future of the South Bronx? What do you envision?

JM: Oh my god. I hope. My hope is that it does like go back to its root. Where it was the birthplace of hip-hop. Something I didn’t get to talk about really, outside of hip-hop, it’s good for like Spanish music like Salsa. WHEDco, like a branch of WHEDco, one of our affiliates, they have dance classes and music playing classes. A lot of that is geared to different types of culture, like Puerto Rican culture, Dominican culture, African culture. It’s pretty cool. Um... I want the South Bronx to be like this hub for music and for people to come here and just enjoy music. That would be cool. Like New Orleans style. The Bronx is like rich with music and live black bands and stuff. Except if the people who moved in here, had the same idea in mind, that would be awesome. You know? Um... So that’s my hope. How do I think it’s going to happen? (Laughs). Um... I just think there’s gonna be like a bunch of rich people who are gonna start building these expensive buildings for poor people that are not really poor. And, um, yeah. A lot of people being displaced. That’s how I expect it to happen, like it happened in other gentrified neighborhoods. I hope it doesn’t happen. Um... but yeah. I also feel like if hip-hop is still existent or like recognized in the future, in this area. Um... I mean in the South Bronx. I feel like I’m in the South Bronx now that I’m talking about it so much. But, um, if hip-hop is still recognized it will probably be appropriated in some type of way or like taken advantage of. Or, you know, someone might turn the profit just because the South Bronx is this like landmark for that, um, type of event. Historic event. So, I hope that doesn’t happen. I hope it continues to serve the people that it already inhabits and I hope that... I don’t know. I do hope more people come here but for the right reasons. And I do hope that it gets safer. I think it will get safer. Definitely.

IL: So now that we’re coming to an end, is there anything else you would like to talk about? Or clarify?

JM: If you had a question or if I wanted to add something else... I don’t know. I think it would have been great, off the record, if you would have sent me the questions because I’m not that great with on the spot.

IL: Oh, no.

JM: I don’t know how I got this job, because I’m not good with interviews but –

IL: No, you’ve been great.

JM: But... um... a lot of my memories. Like I’m gonna go on the train home and I’m gonna be like “oh, I should have said this,” and I’m gonna talk to my friend later and be like, “oh, I could have said that.” Um. I feel like I have these conversations a lot but off the top of my head sometimes it can be like... Eh. (Laughs).